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Beiträge von adilmon

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    Hello, here is the most recent list. Looks like in the last 15 years 600+ sachs 800s reduced to under 500. I think that is quite good result. I have also seen a few converted the cafe racers and scramblers (even a B805), which I'm less happy about because it seems like destroying history.

    manufacturer clear text Type code
    trade name number
    6653 SACHS 101 ZX,ZZ 125 186
    6653 SACHS 102 ZX,ZZ 125 50
    6653 SACHS 103 ROADSTER 125 V2 102
    6653 SACHS 104 XTC,XTC-N 6
    6653 SACHS 105 XTC,XTC-N 8th
    6653 SACHS 106 ROADSTER 650 V1.6 471
    6653 SACHS 107 ROADSTER 650 V1.6 10
    6653 SACHS 108 ROADSTER 800 V2 493
    6653 SACHS 110 XTC 65
    6653 SACHS 111 X ROAD 67
    6653 SACHS AAA X ROAD 99

    Hi all,

    I had some discussion with Hartmut Huhn and will publish full info in due course. The sort story is that it is VERY difficult to bring a motorcycle to market and is no small success. In the meantime, let me share some interesting facts;

    • Egli did indeed design the frame and gave permission for it to be reproduced by MT in Italy
    • There were other Suzuki engines available, including from TL1000 and Hayabusa, but management changes and politics at Suzuki got in the way
    • The Sachs Roadster 800 origin was the swiss version of the VS800GL, with the carb and exhaust changed to release more power and also additional bracing metal on the swingarm to strengthen it.
    • There were many manufacturing challenges, where tooling cost needed to be wisely chosen. For example, plastic panels were pressed not extruded.
    • The blue color of the Sachs Roadster 800 was what was available rather than chosen for particular reason
    • The parts, being low volume, were a challenge to procure and work with many established European suppliers who were free to sell to others. This is the reason of many of the current parts challenges

    Needless to say Hartmut Huhn is a lifelong motorcycle enthusiast, engineer, racer, builder and has a large collection, including a very nice 70s ducati 900ss.

    " he says;

    For my motorcycle love: I was always riding and racing motorcycles all my life and do it still. My racing bikes were build and tuned by myself and I was quite successful in national championships, but i could never race a complete season (see above). I raced also superbikes with international license and 24h endurance races.

    In my first years Honda was so much advanced that I was a big fan. Then I fell in love with Ducati and from 1978 I always rode Ducati (and other Motocross/ Enduro bikes), actually the Streetfighter.

    Then I have a BMW R 90T and more than 40 other older bikes, Ducatis, Aermacchis, Laverda, Guzzi, Enduro/MC bikes and some Sachs and some of my former racebikes.

    I am now restoring old bikes (and sometimes cars) and sourcing parts, one of my Ducatis 900SS is actually for sale https://www.themotorcyclebroker.co.uk


    Hi, just some info that may be of interest. I read that the Sach Roadster 800 and 650 frames were designed by EGLI (known for their famous racing Egli-Vincent, and are kind of a Swiss Bimota).

    Anyway, I thought it incredible that such a prestigious frame designer's name was not mentioned more.

    So I contacted EGLI to confirm and yes, the Workshop & Technical Director Jürg Lindenmann still remembers the Sachs Roadster.

    EGLI also confirmed they designed and built only one prototype. I then read MT Srl in Italy (https://mt-italy.com/steel-frame.html ) manufactured the frame, which I guess are copies from EGLI's sound design. MT Srl make frames for Ducati, Aprilia, Moto Guzzi, Husqvarna and others in Europe

    Side note, the Sachs Roadster 800 prototype pictures do appear to have been clay modelled by TargetDesign on a VX800 engine/frame before eventually using the VS800GL engine in production. I read the switch from VX800 to VS800 was simple because the VX800 ceased production

    Here's their website if interested


    Personally, I'm going to attach the EGLI pin badge on my frame


    Ride safe

    I guess those fuel tanks are perhaps from a Hercules model or one of the Chinese models they were importing. It's the only factory pic I could find and now I can't find the source anymore. I recall the pic was from a factory open day as the city had some kind of celebration for it's industrial history


    I figured these people might be retired and may no longer be available to ask. So, should end the endless speculation.

    A few things I have discovered since.

    The original prototype for the Sachs Roadster 800 is currently in the Museum of Industrial Culture (Museum Industriekultur), which is nice


    Also, the Sachs Beast Prototype I believe lives in Mr Huhn's office.

    I did find only 1 picture from the factory. These were made in the Hercules Motor Works


    [Blockierte Grafik: https://scontent-lcy1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/289596493_10159852823256063_16323809920322117_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=yWAlUlA6AEkAX-EmPXL&tn=w5tX-6H_LOH8cEUO&_nc_ht=scontent-lcy1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_bM0xjCfK1wJFnGW7N-6kYAdMM9OACDrdOctz_HH85fw&oe=62B6FC65]

    Here is a facebook post with the other rare pictures I collected over time


    Hi, I've been reviewing these interesting documents



    "In order to meet the EURO 1 limit values, Sachs has incomprehensibly shortened the carburetor springs in addition to the SLS; an uneven throttle response is the result. With the optimized carburetor modification, there is torque without dips over the entire speed range up to In addition, ..."

    My questions are

    1) Regarding "torque without dips over the entire speed range". Are we sure the carb is the cause? Apparently there is a microswitch on the front carb which alters ignition timing. Evidence from here http://vx-faq.thevuelta.com/. pasted below (I have since just disabled the switch)

    2) Regarding being bad to shorten the carb piston spring. This being done together makes me think that Sachs wanted to

    a) reduce engine braking effect by making slide return down at a slightly slower rate (the Sachs doesn't have the VX800's slipper clutch)

    i.e. smaller hole in slide piston

    b) not be detrimental to quick throttle response, ie shorter spring, less preload resisting vacuum

    c) for emission purposes, produce more torque lower down the rpm range.

    Furthermore, I think this is why the prototype Sachs went from 160/60 rear tire to a 160/70 rear tyre, to reduce the RPM and therefore emissions when being tested

    I have no proof of these carb considerations, but will add them to the questions I give to former Sachs R&D Director Mr Huhn

    What do you think?

    I found a Sachs Roadster grimeca rebuild kit on ebay. It was more than the cost of a new old stock brembo. Grimeca have been bought out and absorbed into a larger company. That's why I just thought, get prettier Brembo caliper and have peace of mind.

    The Grimeca looked like a cheaper imitation of the brembo and I took a gamble that the brake disc offset was the same, and it fit perfectly.

    The brake pad spring from a brembo caliper will fit in a grimeca too, by the way

    Hi, There are so many older pics of Sachs bikes online, but resolution is not great to pick out small modifications and customisations and obviously no explanations.

    Just starting this thread to show off what you have done to you machine. Doesn't matter even if it's just a good clean or a picturesque ride. Do share, it'd be nice to see.

    I'll start, below is mine, just trying out a custom seat, B805 fork springs, Hagon Nitro rear shocks (originally for honda f6c), pirelli diablo strada tyres and new front calipers.

    MicrosoftTeams-image (1).png

    I've made a few changes since this picture was taken and will update in coming weeks.

    Hi, my intention was to simply get the facts around the development of the bikes. Lots of journalists who review bikes speculate on what and why of the design and we end up doing the same online.

    I suspect, looking at the Sachs Brochures, that the blue version was the higher spec/prototype (with adjustable paioli forks) and the black version was the one for production.

    Regarding parts, my own investigation (out of necessity) did reveal some other models that share parts.

    For example,

    • Brembo P4 30 34 calipers used on many ducati guzzi aprilia (40mm bolt spacing) fits. Spiegler are hard to find within budget.
    • The 1bar radiator cap is same as 2017 Aprilia RS125 (pn 861299). Lothar's site shows the manufacturer (biffi premoli) but they are difficult to buy from directly

    Thanks for the questions, especially the carb. I'll update in due course