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Beiträge von adilmon

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    I guess those fuel tanks are perhaps from a Hercules model or one of the Chinese models they were importing. It's the only factory pic I could find and now I can't find the source anymore. I recall the pic was from a factory open day as the city had some kind of celebration for it's industrial history


    I figured these people might be retired and may no longer be available to ask. So, should end the endless speculation.

    A few things I have discovered since.

    The original prototype for the Sachs Roadster 800 is currently in the Museum of Industrial Culture (Museum Industriekultur), which is nice


    Also, the Sachs Beast Prototype I believe lives in Mr Huhn's office.

    I did find only 1 picture from the factory. These were made in the Hercules Motor Works


    [Blockierte Grafik: https://scontent-lcy1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/289596493_10159852823256063_16323809920322117_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=yWAlUlA6AEkAX-EmPXL&tn=w5tX-6H_LOH8cEUO&_nc_ht=scontent-lcy1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_bM0xjCfK1wJFnGW7N-6kYAdMM9OACDrdOctz_HH85fw&oe=62B6FC65]

    Here is a facebook post with the other rare pictures I collected over time


    Hi, I've been reviewing these interesting documents



    "In order to meet the EURO 1 limit values, Sachs has incomprehensibly shortened the carburetor springs in addition to the SLS; an uneven throttle response is the result. With the optimized carburetor modification, there is torque without dips over the entire speed range up to In addition, ..."

    My questions are

    1) Regarding "torque without dips over the entire speed range". Are we sure the carb is the cause? Apparently there is a microswitch on the front carb which alters ignition timing. Evidence from here http://vx-faq.thevuelta.com/. pasted below (I have since just disabled the switch)

    2) Regarding being bad to shorten the carb piston spring. This being done together makes me think that Sachs wanted to

    a) reduce engine braking effect by making slide return down at a slightly slower rate (the Sachs doesn't have the VX800's slipper clutch)

    i.e. smaller hole in slide piston

    b) not be detrimental to quick throttle response, ie shorter spring, less preload resisting vacuum

    c) for emission purposes, produce more torque lower down the rpm range.

    Furthermore, I think this is why the prototype Sachs went from 160/60 rear tire to a 160/70 rear tyre, to reduce the RPM and therefore emissions when being tested

    I have no proof of these carb considerations, but will add them to the questions I give to former Sachs R&D Director Mr Huhn

    What do you think?

    I found a Sachs Roadster grimeca rebuild kit on ebay. It was more than the cost of a new old stock brembo. Grimeca have been bought out and absorbed into a larger company. That's why I just thought, get prettier Brembo caliper and have peace of mind.

    The Grimeca looked like a cheaper imitation of the brembo and I took a gamble that the brake disc offset was the same, and it fit perfectly.

    The brake pad spring from a brembo caliper will fit in a grimeca too, by the way

    Hi, There are so many older pics of Sachs bikes online, but resolution is not great to pick out small modifications and customisations and obviously no explanations.

    Just starting this thread to show off what you have done to you machine. Doesn't matter even if it's just a good clean or a picturesque ride. Do share, it'd be nice to see.

    I'll start, below is mine, just trying out a custom seat, B805 fork springs, Hagon Nitro rear shocks (originally for honda f6c), pirelli diablo strada tyres and new front calipers.

    MicrosoftTeams-image (1).png

    I've made a few changes since this picture was taken and will update in coming weeks.

    Hi, my intention was to simply get the facts around the development of the bikes. Lots of journalists who review bikes speculate on what and why of the design and we end up doing the same online.

    I suspect, looking at the Sachs Brochures, that the blue version was the higher spec/prototype (with adjustable paioli forks) and the black version was the one for production.

    Regarding parts, my own investigation (out of necessity) did reveal some other models that share parts.

    For example,

    • Brembo P4 30 34 calipers used on many ducati guzzi aprilia (40mm bolt spacing) fits. Spiegler are hard to find within budget.
    • The 1bar radiator cap is same as 2017 Aprilia RS125 (pn 861299). Lothar's site shows the manufacturer (biffi premoli) but they are difficult to buy from directly

    Thanks for the questions, especially the carb. I'll update in due course

    Hi, just sharing: please see below link for some b805 fork springs


    I recently upgraded mine and it was still comfortable, but with less pitching forward when braking. The stock springs are progressively wound and these are linear.

    I feel, for 50euro, this is a great mod. I'm a heavy rider so could go a bit stiffer, but I'm seeing much better sag than before and less vague feeling than before.

    [Blockierte Grafik: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7v4AAOSwFL9TtLFD/s-l1600.jpg]

    Hi, Great looking bike. I know the previous owner of it in the UK. The color is Black with Red metallic flake. The story he told me was the paint job was commissioned by the main UK importer Three Cross Motorcycles. Apparently the bike had stayed unsold for a while so they thought to make it more attractive. (I later learned Three Cross Motorcycles is no more, they went out of business and their Director was later prosecuted for false accounting.)

    Anyway, here are some pictures shared with me.



    Hi, I'm a big Sachs Roadster 800 fan and I've been putting together some info about the start of the bike's development. I will write a longer article in due course, but thought I would share some questions the head of Target-Design Hans-Georg Kasten kindly answered

    1) What was target's relationship with Sachs before the Sachs Roadster 800?

    HGK: I won Sachs as a client on the IFMA faire. Our first job for Sachs was a new fairing for the XTC125cc Racing road bike

    2) How did the design brief come about and was the engine choice already decided?

    HGK: The design letter was very short, just a so called "Roadster" a traditional bike for every day and the engine choice what allready done

    3) Did previous work with the katana, MV or Egli affect the sachs roadster 800 design?

    HGK: Difficult to answer, how much your experience from the past is influencing your todays work. We have tried to create something new and outstanding for our client Sachs.

    4) Are you able to share insight into any of the prototype stages? Perhaps sketches or clay model picture?

    HGK: Yes

    adilmon - I will share

    5) The forks switched from Paioli to Marzocchi, and chrome added to engine from prototype to production. Where there any changes you were asked to make by Sachs and why?

    HGK: For some reasons Sachs could only get hold of the engine of the chopper version, which was only available in chrome trim. The forks I do not know.

    adilmon- I later found an article that Hartmut Huhn (Sachs Head of Development) states the TL1000/SV1000 engine wasn't used because there were too many competing models. He's right, there was the sv1000, VStrom 1000, Cagiva Raptor, Cagiva Navigator.

    6) What does "roadster" mean in this context and what market / demographic was this bike aimed at? Cruiser, commuter, weekend warrior etc ..?

    HGK: In our mind Roadsters are street-legal motorcycles in which both the drive and the chassis are uncovered and whose equipment is reduced for pure driving on asphalt roads. The peer group is a little bit older, they are no racers

    7) We've seen vertically stacked headlights on sachs beast, madass and even BMW R1200c. Is this part of Target's design language?

    HGK: No, this is only one of the possibilities if you are not allowed to create a new headlight

    8 )- By chance I own a BMW helmet AirFlow Helmet designed by Target. Do you have any more motorcycle industry mandates that we can expect in the future?

    HGK: I can only inform you about the past, the future is secret ... sorry

    9) What was the brief for the Sach B-805 or how did it differ?

    HGK: The B 805 is the sporty version of the 800 roadster. But it only looks more sporty with the fairing and front fender, in reality it is not

    10) Lastly, some context on the designer: When did you become interested in motorcycles or design and why? Any other models that you admire?

    HGK: My first job was at the Porsche styling center, I also love sporty cars. But in the same time I started to became interested in motorcycles. My first bike was a Honda 125 TL. No number plates - no driver license. I used it off road. After some month I bought a Honda Elsinore 250, this is a crosser. Later I became an offer to join the BMW design department. After my boss was fired I was in charge of this department. But at this time BMW was extremely conservative so I left to start Target Design with two other guys. Our first job was the Suzuki Katana. All the time I was a fan of many Ducati bikes. After my boss was fired I was in charge of this department. But at this time BMW was extremely conservative so I left to start Target Design with two other guys. Our first job was the Suzuki Katana. All the time I was a fan of many Ducati bikes.

    Hi, I understand the Triumph Daytona 675 fuel can is interchangeable. There are lots of aftermarket options that fit. I'll buy one in coming weeks to confirm.

    The instruments on the Cagiva planet/Raptor 125 are from the same supplier and very similar. (although at least 1 of the mounting pins is in a different location) and the warning lights are the same except inverted